Hai to Gensou no Grimgar – 10
Is this saying, “careful who you turn your back on”?
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Sometimes it’s a case of six of one, half a dozen of the other; just don’t fall prey to the golden mean fallacy. In short, both Ranta and Haru have points to make… |
We’re the Invaders
Personally, on a level of storytelling, character construction, and group dynamics, I really enjoy Ranta. He’s a really good counterpoint to the rest of the group; he live’s the code of the blood knight (honestly when you gonna steal something Haru?), and so therefor he is being honest with himself. Does he go overboard? To far afield at times? More in the wrong than right? Yes, yes, and yes. But in this episode, the perennial good guy, Haru, is on even footing with his “rival”.
But in all honesty, even if I wasn’t aware of interesting things like “character construction” and didn’t have the buffer that narrative fiction provides, I’d be soooo tempted to drop Ranta down one of those shafts in about half a heart beat; and like I was saying, Haruhiro might be right behind him in short order as both of these just about took the proverbial pickle. I was so on edge with them and that, in getting back to this being just a story, is where we should be. This was all building up from the first episode and it was great to see it develop and bubble up to this point.
Her story about the two knives is a pretty good underline…
So let’s break down the middle of the episode, which is were the bubble hit the real boil to me. We’ll get to the end, which is more the consequences of what came before. I feel Ranta is mostly in the right, at least for himself. There is no rule out there that says he has to be a friendly person to fit the party, and I thought it was a good point both in terms of character and story for him to point out that Mary was not very friendly at the get go; as that does paint Haru as holding Ranta to a standard he only expects Ranta to uphold, and it points out the blind spot that Haru has for Mary.
Ranta walks alone…
When you look at it from another point of view, Haru is actually more the jerk in these situations than Ranta is. Heck, Haru even points out in his own mind that he is getting too angry over everything and that it’s going to cause them trouble unless he cools himself down.
Only….he doesn’t. That bit with the domesticated squealer rat things the kobolds keep? I knew that Ranta was testing out to see if they were completely tame, and I think Haru did too, but he just had to “correct” him on it. I just blurted out, “Now you’re just being a dick! Oh, look now you’re doubling down!”.
On just the level of story, I love that. It’s engaging, it feels real, and it fits the narrative like a glove. So many storytellers commit grave faults with “annoying” characters and make that their only character note, and play it in a fashion that just rings in the audiences ears. Here they allowed these two characters the space to point-counterpoint each other, where we understood the annoyance without feeling it ourselves.
It’s the right time to shut down….for drama that is….
But as I said earlier, we get to the consequences. In the instance that both boys wanted to prove who was the most right, they blunder. The mistake was avoidable in most regards, and I would put blame on both of them. But now is not really the time to fix the blame is it? I’ve not talked much about the time of the kobolds yet, so now seems like a good time.
It’s almost like they group has started all over again in how they feel about being Volunteer soldiers. But it’s really about perception isn’t it. They got used to goblins over a period of time, got used to the kill or be killed/kill to live mentality. I found it interesting that Haru takes a break before going deeper into the mines, saying he doesn’t want them to get complacent, yet this guilt factor, he expresses over the kobolds, is a form of complacency already; and I’m not sure the rest of the group shares it as much as he thinks they do.
What it all points to is the big old bundle of insecurity that Haruhiro is feeling over not only being leader, but in his place in this world; he’s still staring at the moon, which is almost becoming, to me, his unspoken and unfulfilled wish to be out of there. Also, considering that he is constantly holding Manato to an unfair standard and using that to question his judgement pretty much all the time, his insecurities are hardly surprising. There are some things that thrive and grow in the shade, but people ain’t one of them. He even uses Manato to hold Ranta to an impossible standard.
That is way to much to take into a combat situation, and it’s going to tumble down pretty hard if it keeps up. He really should deal with it like a professional. Maybe finding out more about Ranta’s fighting style in addition to his personality? Or better yet, Ranta should explain himself, and how his system functions. It’ll go a long way to fill his role in the party, but something is holding him back.
This is something the direction and the animators might try harder with as I don’ t think his way of sowing confusion with those moves they’ve give us comes off very well onscreen. But with all of this, I wonder if Mary was going into a panic attack over the whole situation; that she’s maybe hiding how her party got along? I’m really reaching on that bit, but the past repeating itself would be an interesting way to take the story. It wasn’t so much a big monster, as it was how her party might have cornered itself.
Is this Next or a Flashback?
On the other side…
Fight the Kobolds
…that ain’t Death Spots/Patch…
About skylion
All around nerd that enjoys just about any anime genre. I love history, politics, public policy, the sciences, literature, arts...pretty much anything can make me geeky...except sports. Follow me @theskylion
POWUH: iLurker with 15 comments
My reaction around the end of ep.10:
Damn it, Haru! What’re you waiting for? Give Mary a hug and cross the bridge together already! XD
About question from the preview pic, I don’t think it’s the flashback despite its color tone. Here’s my wild guess, extremely wild (and ready to be embarassed) since most of this episode are anime-original/change.
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POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10998 comments
Do you think they’ll go for any anime original scenes? Have they already? I’ve not seen much chatter about that yet. As for the hug? Well, they’re busy being all scared…
POWUH: iLurker with 15 comments
Like I mentioned before, while the overall plotline is still the same, the anime already change/make up a good number of character interactions or (minor?) story sequence.
But of course, I no longer have any problem with all these changes. In fact, I’m very curious to see how the anime will tweak around this.
*An all new experience that may lead to the interesting season 2* That preview pic, in particular, look very promising.
P.S. Mary is way too cute in every aspect. XD I saw some comment on other boards about how cute her PTSD face is. O_o
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10998 comments
I cannot agree with this sentiment, and in fact disagree with in entirely. What about someone’s trauma is appealing on that level?
POWUH: 500-599 with 540 comments
Hahahaha wait someone said her PTSD face was cute… I might have to re-watch that scene and check cuz I didn’t notice anything cute about her PTSD face during my first watch through. XD
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10998 comments
…having said that I don’t think you need to rewatch it, just slap that other internet commenter upside the head for being a right arse.
POWUH: 500-599 with 540 comments
A good episode overall. Haruhiro+Yume=A certain Florentine Noble and Assassin, Ezio Audisomething Da Firenze XD. They left out/modified lot of the build up to Haruhiro’s frustration with Ranta as I’m sure you noticed. In the LN many readers (including me) were getting annoyed at both Haruhiro and Ranta XD. Haruhiro isn’t actually as right as he hopes he is, notice how everyone else doesn’t get into explosive arguments with Ranta… Btw can any LN readers confirm for me if they remember Mary having a PTSD attack on spotting Death Patch, I can’t quite remember.Show ▼
The shots of their feet were pretty meh tbh, I hope they fix it in the BD.
POWUH: Meta Team and Spammy Tamer with 7115 comments
Well, I think Haruhiro is a lot more right than Ranta, and part of the reason that the others aren’t getting into arguments with Ranta is because they 1) don’t want to (because he’s an ass whose entire argument style is “la la la I’m not listening to youuuuuu”) and 2) because it’s not their job or place to because they’re not the party leader. That’s something that they need to rely on Haruhiro to work out.
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10998 comments
You know, Yume has already punched Ranta’s ticket once. Maybe Haru’s real solution to this Dark Knight shaped problem is to delegate?
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10998 comments
???? Oh, I had to look that up. I don’t really play the vidya games any more. But, since I did look that up, I have to somewhat disagree…I think Haru’s and Yume’s moves are quite so repetitive? Dunno, moving on.
I think they’ve done a tremendous job showing that Haru is on uneven ground in his own mind. That they used Ranta to do it is a great twist.
Yes, I did notice that the rest of the gang didn’t have any problems with Ranta, but I only made brief mention this time around cause I didn’t know that was 100% true.
ERMAHGERD there is sooooo much to fix for the BD release. I’ve been quite upset about this but have choose to remain silent in my main posts about it. Recall in the FI, how much I enthused about both animator/director/writer Ryosuke Nakamura and animator/character designer Mieko Hosoi teaming up. Now I wish they had more time and more budget.
POWUH: 500-599 with 540 comments
Yeah, you’re right about quality issues but they cover it up quite well compared to other shows I’ve seen with quality issues. e.g. Ore Twintails ni Narimasu where the TV version’s quality got really obviously bad halfway through… the shading wasn’t done… it was drawn badly… and most of all, all of this stood out like black ink on freshly bleached paper.
POWUH: 500-599 with 540 comments
Hahaha complaining about repetition from an Assassin’s Creed game is nothing knew, but Assassin’s Creed 2 was actually a stellar improvement over the first game, which what terribly repetitive. Assassin’s Creed 2 though was a good game and really famous during its time. I’m surprised you’ve never heard of it at all.
POWUH: Meta Team and Spammy Tamer with 7115 comments
I think that I’ll be the guy who defends Haruhiro here, and again, I’m speaking from my own experience as a party / group leader. There is a significant hazard to the entire party in the behavior of Ranta, even if he feels he is fulfilling whatever his duty is to the party. The problem is that the scope of that duty is not clear, and truly, it seems that Ranta feels it’s “Whatever I want it to be”. And that’s a problem, a big problem. Because the party leader has to be able to coordinate and adjust, and Haruhiro just can’t do that if he has to constantly evaluate whether Ranta will actually do what he asks, or whether he’ll just do something else. Is Ranta ‘right’ when he claims it doesn’t matter in most situations? Yeah, technically he is. But in the first case he’s not right, they’re dead, and it’s not just Ranta who will be dead.
I’m not saying that a party leader has to be a dictator, or a strongman, or has to have the unswerving obedience of all party members at all times. But a party leader does have to have that confidence that what he asks will happen as best as the members can do it. That has to be part of the deal when you agree to be in a party. When it’s not, you get a lot of wipes. In WoW, a wipe is ‘run back and try again’. In Grimgar, a wipe is “Hopefully there’s an afterlife.”
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10998 comments
I’ll never give Haruhiro a hard time for being a party leader, and I don’t think I really have. I’ve giving him a hard time for closing down and internalizing the issues; as just a simple person. But then, Ranta is almost guilty of the same thing, only he’s boiling over while still internalizing all his issues.
POWUH: Meta Team and Spammy Tamer with 7115 comments
Well, as you hint, there’s no way that getting things out with Ranta will do any good, it will just cause a screaming match. And that wouldn’t be good for anyone in the party, because now they’d be wondering whether anyone is leading. Every time that Haruhiro has pushed Ranta, he’s pushed back and not given any ground. So Haruhiro’s still trying to figure out how and where to push to get through to him. Ultimately, this is a fit issue, where there’s one guy who just isn’t fitting in with the rest of the group. And you can kind of see that Ranta sees that, too, or is at least trying to convince himself of that. He’s receding on friendships, he’s emotionally disengaging from the group, he’s becoming more and more defensive, he’s framing it as a ‘job’.
Honestly, imo, Haruhiro’s in a no-win situation here, because the reality of the situation is being defined by Ranta, who is being irrational about it.
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10998 comments
Oh my yes, Ranta is Haru’s very own Kobayashi Maru. Maybe telling him “It’s not your fault” over and over again will work?
POWUH: Meta Resident with 1692 comments
I thought Kei and Yuri were the ones whose fault it wasn’t, over and over again.
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10998 comments
We talking completely different kinds of faults aren’t we?
…now that is some old school awesome…
POWUH: iLurker with 15 comments
….I’m not saying that a party leader has to be a dictator, or a strongman, or has to have the unswerving obedience of all party members at all times. But a party leader does have to have that confidence that what he asks will happen as best as the members can do it….
I really miss this same line from certain girl in LN.
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POWUH: Meta Team and Spammy Tamer with 7115 comments
If the show was to turn into a romance / relationship show, then that kind of thing would be more important, but it’s unsurprising that it’s left out of the series as is.
However, it’s an important thing. A leader needs encouragement and feedback, just as much as they need to encourage the people they’re leading. They need to know that they have the support of the people, because the less that’s known, the more they second-guess themselves. Not “they start to second-guess”, but “more second-guess”.
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10998 comments
If there are any romance aspects in the show at all, it’s that it is acting as a mirror to the viewer, mostly…
POWUH: 500-599 with 540 comments
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Note my memory of these explanations are not perfect so pls don’t kill me if I got it wrong 🙂
POWUH: 500-599 with 540 comments
I don’t mean to bash Haru but as for Rants being a problematic element… I think the rest of the party have times when they really get annoyed by Ranta but. Show ▼
POWUH: Meta Resident with 1692 comments
While Haruhiro does share some blame and needs to talk to Ranta to find out more about his fighting style and what he thinks his role in the party is, Haruhiro is more in the right than Ranta. Ranta has to remember they’re a team and he has to be a team player. Going off as a loose cannon is going to have bad consequences at some point.
While the rest of the party seems to accept “that’s just the way Ranta is” they shouldn’t. They need to back Haruhiro in this matter. When someone is uncooperative and gives the leader a hard time they all should have an issue with that person.
There is one big thing the party as a whole hasn’t done yet and they need to do it ASAP. They need to sit down and each of them needs to state what they feel their role in the party should be and how their fighting style plays into that. Mary is the only one who came close to that when she joined the party and refused to fight in the front lines or to heal minor injuries. Then as a group they need to hash out what each will do during an encounter. This will also give Ranta a chance to feel he has some input into their actions, rather than feeling Haruhiro is just trying to boss him around, which he clearly resents.
Now maybe that conference was done “off camera,” but it seems more like they’ve fallen into their various roles in combat rather than they’ve devised an actual plan of action.
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10998 comments
It’s very possible that they’ve had that meeting when Manato was the leader, and they’re now dealing with some of the unforeseen and unfinished business from that meeting.
POWUH: Meta Resident and LN Informant with 1529 comments
I’ve heard the “unfit to be leader” thinking Haru has is a recurring theme in some later volumes.
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POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10998 comments
It’s a good theme, you can have a great arc with it if it’s played out well. It’s a great basis for a “Start of Darkness” or “What Makes a Hero?”…
POWUH: iLurker with 15 comments
Ah, that famous ….. subplot! We demand the next seasons, BRING IT ON!
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POWUH: Meta Team and Spammy Tamer with 7115 comments
This is not unusual at all. Imposter Syndrome is a thing. And even among people who don’t have Imposter Syndrome, there’s always going to be second-guessing: of yourself, your ideas, your methods, your reasoning. And to a point this is healthy and necessary.
One problem with leading is that there’s no end to it. Unless someone else agrees to take the mantle from you, and then doesn’t try to give it back, it’s going to be yours once you take it. There are going to be others who back-seat lead, and that’s one of the most annoying things. And unfortunately, you can’t just dump leadership on those people. “You think you know everything, you’re the leader now.” It just doesn’t work that way. A group leader just cannot abdicate authority like that, unless they quit the activity altogether, because then you have a crisis amongst multiple leaders.
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10998 comments
POWUH: Beginner (20-35) with 23 comments
I don’t want spoilers but out of curiosity do they ever get into where everyone came from? And if they do is it stupid? I really like this show but I want to adjust my expectations if things are going to get weird or go way off the rails.
POWUH: 500-599 with 540 comments
I’ve only read vol 2 so..Show ▼
POWUH: and Athenaeum Châtelaine with 2212 comments
I really enjoyed the character interaction that was on display in this episode, especially the interplay between Ranta and Haru. Most people are irritated by Ranta, and in real life I probably would be too. And yet, there is something about him that I goes well for the dynamic of this story.
The climax of Haru and Ranta’s conversation really shows that both characters are in the right and yet also in the wrong. Ranta and Haru don’t get along, but you’re not always going to get along with everybody. As a leader, You have to find someway to work with that person, even if you aren’t necessarily friends with them.
Also, Haru is in the wrong for trying to hold Ranta to his own standards, and yet, just as he said, won’t talk about his own faults and issues. Haru called himself hypocrite and I think it’s there more than he knows. he was thrust into the leader spot, but he hasn’t been able to put this personal stuff behind him.
Ranta worked with Manato, because even though Manato might not have liked everything about Ranta, he still respected him and really only reined him in when he went to far. And even then, he did it in ways that were specifically for Ranta, and not how he would deal with others. Ranta therefore also respected Manato and was hit hard when he died.
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10998 comments
There are a ton of people I’ve worked with like Ranta. Irritating, but not weak nor necessarily lazy, and that’s the problem. Personalities can and will clash in any workplace. But I think they’ve shown that Ranta and Haru can work it out as neither is completely dismissive of each other.
POWUH: Meta Team and Spammy Tamer with 7115 comments
I will point out that you don’t ever ‘have’ to work with someone, and they don’t in this case. Either of Ranta or Haruhiro could leave their party at any time, and it’s also possible that Haruhiro could disinvite Ranta from the party. If he thought that Ranta’s fighting was going to seriously increase the chances of one or more people getting injured or killed because he wouldn’t follow directions, that would be good reason to disinvite him. Would there be consequences for that? Sure. But there’s always a tradeoff.
I don’t really know if we can say anything about how Manato dealt with Ranta. The circumstances were completely different, the dynamics were completely different. Manato had advantages in being the leader from the beginning that Haruhiro just doesn’t have. And because Haruhiro and Ranta used to be of equal status, and now Haruhiro is above him, that’s an added cause for friction.
POWUH: 500-599 with 540 comments
What IreneSharda has pointed out is basically exactly what Haruhiro seems to be saying in his monologues (in the LN). Highway is right aswell in a way. In the LN when Haru said he ‘needed too talk’ with Ranta, he was trying to tell Ranta that he had to leave the party (Haru thought Ranta was more trouble then he was worth at the time) but then everything Ranta says following that lead Haru to IreneSharda’s conclusion and thus he couldn’t find it in him to kick out Ranta. Skylion’s point is another thing Haruhiro eventually realised. i.e. no one else was fed up with Ranta, it was only Haru who was. He just needed to work out why only he had problems with Ranta and he would be able to work together with him.