Kakumeiki Valvrave – 09
Shoko x L-ELF for new OTP? Oh wait nevermind he has Haruto.
Well we have finally reached the ninth episode which means Valvrave is almost over, but anyway I remember some of us guessed that the title of this episode hinted towards Raizou or possibly Kyuuma becoming one of the newest Valvrave pilots because both of them want revenge for their dead friends.
Revenge in space!
Blue Valvrave has a awesome cape~
Yellow Valvrave and his many arms yo!
I guess we can put one of the mysteries behind us this week because not only did Kyuuma become a pilot, but Raizou also became a badass Valvrave pilot in the same episode; however it was thanks to the wise words of L-Elf that gave Kyuuma time to think about his important choice along with Raizou later on after they exchanged fists! That said, they did mention that Raizou kept on breaking into the mecha hangar to try and steal one of the giant robots. After learning that fact I felt the impact of the bully dude becoming a pilot was lame compared to someone like Kyuuma’s story, but to be fair I feel that the creators of Valvrave are playing up Aina’s death which of course gives him a special purpose to protect his friends from danger with the help of the Valvrave. Speaking of protecting I loved watching how the blue Valvrave used that massive cape as a shield to reflect lasers? After seeing that moment it made me think of some characters with similar “powers” found in Heartcatch PreCure and Doki Doki PreCure because both series have girls with awesome fighting skills, but they spend most of their time using their shield ability to protect their friends instead of fighting off the enemy which makes me think that the blue Valvrave will spend a lot of time doing the same thing in the large space battles; however that is not a bad role to have because every five man team needs a beefy tank class to act as the giant meat shield while the others fight.
Mysteries in space!
Never trust teachers in space…
Since we cleared out one of the larger mysteries of Valvrave this week, we might as well talk about the last few minutes featuring L-ELF finding Mr. Takumi Kibukawa looking at the experimental Valvrave machines. So who is this mysterious teacher anyway? For starters he is a former soldier of the JIOR army with a master rank and was involved in researching the mysterious Valvrave machines. I wonder if that means Rion Nanami is also a former JIOR soldier like Takumi, but I would put her as a medical officer for now or is she just acting like a ditsy teacher the whole time? Can you imagine if she was some badass soldier back in the day? Honestly that would not surprise me if that was true. So what happens now that his cover has been blown? I assume that Takumi will share all his research notes to L-ELF which could reveal some massive secret behind the Valvrave project and what about Cain’s plot from the last episode? I wonder if he worked with Takumi in the past.
Extra Valvrave fun
For a dead character she has more twitter friends than me.
No one likes you bro.
Kyuuma finds a new girlfriend! Sorry Aina.
End thoughts
Hooray! More giant robots have joined Haruto and Saki to defend the floating space school! I was not expecting to see Raizou take the yellow Valvrave so fast! So which machine did you like the most this week blue or yellow? I am starting to think the creators of this series are watching Majestic Prince because each mecha in that series has a certain role like long ranged, data collecting, tank and fighting types just like your typical class choices found in most MMORPG. Personally I liked the yellow Valvrave because it has all those freaking arms? Did anyone else laugh when that random chick corrected her commander on the number of arms the yellow Valvrave had? I couldn’t stop laughing for some odd reason I found that to be hilarious. Besides all of that I have to ask! Who will get the purple Valvrave? I know most think it should go to Saki, but I don’t think she is cut out for that kind of role because I continue to see her as the default cheerleader. I guess it could go to Akira, Marie or Takahi right? Then again just because it is purple doesn’t really mean it belongs to a female character, for all we know L-ELF could have plans to take the final Valvrave for himself right? I also wonder the test tube machines can be of use later on.
Preview
I hope L-ELF loves the color purple!
Who will pilot the purple Valvrave?
POWUH: 1000-1099 and Pirate King with 1048 comments
I like the Yellow Valvrave that Thunder took as well, definitely a personal fave of mine. Big guns and many arms!
POWUH: Meta Team and PreCure Mastah with 9203 comments
Hell ya! I think the Yellow Valvrave is perfect for Zoro from One Piece! Imagine what he could do with that? The guns are a plus as well.
POWUH: Meta Team and Spammy Tamer with 7115 comments
Well, L-Elf did figure out that all the teachers except Rion were soldiers. So she’s the only one in the whole module who wasn’t. Even the students who didn’t know they were soldiers were part of the military experiment.
I thought the blue was much better than the yellow. Yellow split off all those arms and all I could think was “it’s a Doc Ock ripoff.” And L-Elf’s plan was pretty transparent as soon he didn’t recall Saki and Haruto. He’s got a pretty darn big reality distortion field, doesn’t he?
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10998 comments
Those cold calculating bastard types always leave out a person they think is never going to be part of the equation. That person, inevitably, ends up tearing up whatever plan in ongoing.
POWUH: iLurker with 3 comments
Speaking of calculative types. The only thing i notice that did not went well according to L-Elf’s plan was Shoko suddenly shoving food in his mouth. LOL
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10998 comments
No one expects bean jellies, man. It’s like the weakest of jellies in appearance. Dragonquest slimes take ’em out with little to no problem, probably cause they taste so good….
POWUH: iLurker with 3 comments
Yeah… Slimes were the weakest monsters on almost every RPG-games afterall.
POWUH: and Vampire Lover with 11746 comments
Just like the Flans in the Final Fantasy games. They’re more or less the same thing.
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10998 comments
I can make a flan, but I haven’t tried bean jelly yet….
POWUH: and Athenaeum Châtelaine with 2212 comments
Again, Valvrave does an excellent job!
Kyuma and Raizo are have been trying to become pilots, but have been constantly foiled since as L-elf says, they are not yet ready. L-elf has effectively taken over the module and has begun to train the students to become a military nation. However, those two still want to avenge those they have lost. Kyuma, after some advice from L-11 has begun to train himself hard to become as calm and efficient as a machine. Raizo continues to be bullheaded and continues to try to take the Valvrave and eventually is put in the brig. I love how opposite those two characters are, but yet they are similar in a way as we see from their later tete-a-tete.
We get the debut of Valvrave 3 and 5 in this episode and both are amazingly awesome. VVV3 surprisingly can go from having 4 arms to 10 and is a good close range melee fighter. VVV5 is excellent for defense, having the strongest shields of all the Valvraves. Yet he is also go for offense, have twin hand guns that resemble a bow and can shoot out multiple shafts of laser fire.
The Dorssians changed it up a bit and brought in another fleet to do a divide and conquer attack. NewJIOR is ready because of L-elf’s training and strategy, but even then the Dorssian’s new plan is beginning to be too much for them. However, L-11 has of course planned everything, including having set things up for Kyuma and Raizo to become the new pilots of the Valvraves, who using their new weapons, save the day while Haruto and Saki are occupied.
Kyuma, who had been in love with Aina, comes to the conclusion to fight for himself and live on, and goes back to his normal self by the end. However, even while everyone is celebrating, there are new tangles beginning to arise. Col. Cain doesn’t care about the battle but only that there are now “four of them” and that they have somehow “reproduced successfully”? He knows more than anyone what’s going on with the Valvraves so I wonder what he means by that? While none of the new pilots have been showing signs of going into bestial vampire mode, Haruto has been experiencing it more and more frequently, with the VVV-tan strangely saying that she’s hungry. Coincidence? I think not.
We also find from our physics teacher/JIOR soldier Takumi-sensei, that not only was every teacher (except Rion) and worker in the school but also every person in the surrounding city a member of the military, but that the entirety of Module 77 including the students, was all set up for the Valvraves. We had already guessed that from L-11’s earlier comment a few episodes ago, but now have it confirmed. However, I have to say that if that’s true, JIOR has some of the crappiest soldiers ever. That entire module was made up of soldiers but they still got taken down by a single Dorssian fleet and group of 5 bishie Hitler youths? That’s just sad…
Next week is the “Campaign of Love”, it looks to have more revelations and character development next time. However, we now have 4 Valvrave pilots up with 1 more to go and a unfinished VVV unit (2?) in the basement. What shall happen next? I’m excited to find out.
I give this episode an 8.5/10.
POWUH: Meta Team and PreCure Mastah with 9203 comments
I know right? Another awesome week of Valvrave <3
I was so excited to see not only the Blue Valvrave but the yellow one as well?! I still favor the yellow one because I prefer the role of charging in; however blue will come in handy as the tank xD
Cain doesn't seem to be afraid of the new Valvraves at all! I wonder if there is some lore about all the machines waking up? Much like Rinne no Lagrange's vox mechs if you are familiar with that series?! I could see something like that...
I can't wait to see what happens with the test tube Valvraves! Will they be used for other students or no? I keep thinking of them as "spare parts" instead of full suits, but who knows! I know Cain has his eye set on reviving his "race"
Nice score~
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10998 comments
Yellow and Blue make Green. Support for Saki? Blue and Red make Purple. So, how does that character mix suggest who will sit in the Purple cockpit?
POWUH: and Vampire Lover with 11746 comments
It seems kind of vague. I can’t make any clear suggestion on that. The only thing left to do is wait and see.
POWUH: Metanorn Regular with 77 comments
The yellow valvrave is like the ultimate. Dat fire power! Man I’m jealous of thunder. But I do wonder, once this is all over, will they really be able to lay down their arms? I think that the blue valvrave won’t. And it seems that I’ve misjudged thunder, I actually think he’s fighting for the right reasons, and won’t let the power consume him, but I like that he lets his fallen comrades inspire his wrath.
And the physics teacher, he’s got a story, and I’ll bet it’s a dark one. The fact that the entire module is a military one, he’s got a story tell and I want to hear it. And bunks don’t stop the Haruto x L-elf, for those who ship them. I’m shipping Haruto and Shoko.
POWUH: Meta Team and PreCure Mastah with 9203 comments
I agree! Yellow Valvrave for the win and Thunder is actually turning out to be a interesting character, as for his motives I think he is on equal grounds as Kyuuma in regards to his reason to fight! So yeah for me personally both guys are doing it for the right reasons.
Good luck with your Shoko x Haruto ship! I just haven’t seen much of a push from either character, but I know they have bigger issues to deal with right now instead of hooking up…
POWUH: iLurker with 1 comments
There is a “leak” regarding certain events in the tenth episode. It had been quite a big talk on Twitter, 2ch, and /a/ With regards to the preview, here’s screenshots from the preview as seen on the Chinese stream. Link.
POWUH: Meta Team and PreCure Mastah with 9203 comments
So much stuff going on in that preview, but hey it has me very interested! Thanks for commenting and sharing a link because my episode seemed to be lacking in the preview department.
POWUH: and Vampire Lover with 11746 comments
Looks like Shoko is going to go through some drama in the next episode. I wonder if that will mean anything. Also, I’m sensing potential infighting among the Dorssians. This should be interesting.
POWUH: and Athenaeum Châtelaine with 2212 comments
You can bet he does, the two have even moved in together it seems. And of course L-elf knows exactly how to take care of Haruto’s recent “urges”….^_~
POWUH: Meta Team and PreCure Mastah with 9203 comments
Ya its called a swift punch to the gut! I wonder if you can count that as domestic abuse? Poor Haruto getting owned by L-ELF…
POWUH: and Vampire Lover with 11746 comments
Even if it’s abuse, can you blame L-Elf? He learned from the first time what happens if you let Haruto get too close while he’s rabid. And that was a very painful lesson. I wonder if he still has the bite marks to prove it.
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10998 comments
Biting is like kissing, only there’s a winner-
The Doctor’s Wife
POWUH: and Vampire Lover with 11746 comments
Well… some say a vampire bite is in a way a kiss…
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10998 comments
Ah, the Embrace. I am recalling my youth and playing the sit down RPG, Vampire the Masquerade. Which calls to mind the complicated relationship of Shinobu and Araragi-kun. My rival.
POWUH: and Athenaeum Châtelaine with 2212 comments
Strangely enough, Haruto hasn’t bitten anyone else while in vampire mode. All those other times were without fang. I wonder if that will be significant later on?
POWUH: and Vampire Lover with 11746 comments
Maybe it is significant. I think he begins to show fangs depending on how desperate he becomes based on how bad his cravings get.
POWUH: Meta Resident and LN Informant with 1529 comments
The biggest question here is,
Why would a nation completely committed to a pacifist, no-war stance even develop the Valvraves in the first place?
It is true that even the most neutral nation would maintain its own standing army for self-defense, although given the Valvrave’s firepower it does make you wonder if the Valvraves were reproduced strictly for JIOR’s defense, or whether JIOR(or its associated factions) had more sinister plans for the Valvraves.
The decision to have Module 77 and the school serve as a covert recruitment and Valvrave manufacturing facility certainly points back to involvement by the highest echelons of JIOR. But why?
POWUH: Meta Team and Spammy Tamer with 7115 comments
I don’t think there is such a thing as a ‘pacifist’ nation. That’s a far different thing from ‘neutral’. And given the size of JIOR compared to the two other mega nations, being belligerent wouldn’t go over well.
But having superweapons like Valvraves doesn’t, to me, indicate a non-defense-oriented mindset. They are the analog of air power now: they can wreck things and armies, but they are not very helpful for conquest.
POWUH: Metanorn Lover with 167 comments
Now that she’s dead, Aina does look pretty cute in her photos
POWUH: Meta Team and PreCure Mastah with 9203 comments
Sad but true Cybersteel~
POWUH: and Vampire Lover with 11746 comments
The cute ones are always the first to go.
POWUH: and Vampire Lover with 11746 comments
Seeing her cute photos all around after her death does make the atmosphere a bit sad. It is a shame that she’s dead now.
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10998 comments
Man, stop that, you guys are making me cry over here….
POWUH: and Vampire Lover with 11746 comments
It’s alright. Let it all out. 😛
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10998 comments
…..i’m ok…..
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10998 comments
“Ten, if you count the original two”.
Yes. We need more bridge bunnies of this caliber. Now more than ever cause Blue shot that bridge…
Yeah, I kinda knew that JIOR was up to something. I can imagine the Valvraves as a pre-cursor technology they stumbled upon, and are going to have big uses for it. Colonel Cain knows more. “Reproduced” he said. Looks like Cain is thinking to far ahead at this point?
Blue Shield and Thunder Arms. During the battle it was so obvious when Blue was outnumbered that Thunder would come out of no-where to save the moment. But, if they didn’t do it that way, we would have been pissed, right?
Is it just me, or are those two a bit more effective at kicking ass? I mean Thunder totally cut one of the elite mech’s head clean off with minimal effort….
POWUH: Meta Team and Spammy Tamer with 7115 comments
I was almost counting down to exactly when Thunder punched that guy. Of course, I was doing the same thing for when Blue appeared in the first place. “Oh gosh, the power went out! Whatever shall happen? I think the brig loses power for the electric locks! That would be *terrible* if someone got out…”
POWUH: Meta Team and PreCure Mastah with 9203 comments
Yeah agreed Blue and Yellow did kick a lot of ass!
POWUH: and Vampire Lover with 11746 comments
You got to wonder which order they all go in because the recent ones are proving to be more powerful than the previous ones. And there are still two more Valvraves unaccounted for. Right now, we only have five.
POWUH: Meta Team and PreCure Mastah with 9203 comments
If that is true then the purple Valvrave is the most powerful of the bunch!
POWUH: and Vampire Lover with 11746 comments
If it’s true and it falls into the hands of a girl then I’m going to die laughing. More importantly, which girl is going to get it and give up their humanity to pilot it?
POWUH: Meta Team and PreCure Mastah with 9203 comments
Anyone but Shoko! I just can’t see her piloting a Valvrave, but if I had to guess maybe Akira or Takahi? Even though I am leaning more towards Takahi because her character gives off that aggressive vibe to me, but of course anyone works…
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10998 comments
I would like to see Marie get it, because they’ve done so little with her, other than comic relief. But as Fosh says, Takahi is a better candidate…
POWUH: and Vampire Lover with 11746 comments
For me, it’s either Shoko or Akira. For now, the other girls are too underdeveloped to give a credible possibility.
POWUH: Meta Resident and Werewolf Chaser with 1270 comments
Judging by the OP, its def Akira. Now I’m curious how the writers are going to get her out of the boxfort…. I have a feeling Satomi will be the trigger for it…
POWUH: and Vampire Lover with 11746 comments
Hey, how she gets out of her cave is anyone’s guess but right now, she’s one of many choices.
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10998 comments
The cockpit of a Valvrave seems pretty cave like, and even more advanced than her current rig. One cave for a better cave?
POWUH: and Vampire Lover with 11746 comments
A good episode. It’s annoying knowing there are only three remaining until Fall this year. For the year ender posts, if you guys decide to put a “Best Trainwreck” category, this would be a good candidate because it’s a nice guilty pleasure show.
So two pilots answered “yes” to the “Do you resign as a human?” question. Ugh, too many similarities other than Majestic Prince lately because this felt like that recent episode of Samurai Bride. We know Haruto isn’t happy about this development but I wanted to hear what Saki had to say to this. All that’s left is the purple Valvrave and hopefully it goes to Shoko or at least the hacker girl Akira. I can’t see that fitting anything other than a girl and Saki is getting crowded being the only female pilot. L-Elf is already doing his job coming up with plans like Zetsuen no Tempest’s Mahiro.
So a machine that turns a human into a vampire-like beast says it’s hungry. What exactly does it survive on? I think Haruto’s outbursts are linked to his Valvrave given he’s the first one to give up his humanity and has been like that the longest. Most likely the others will follow the same path starting with Saki.
So I was right in assuming the entire module was one giant testing ground and the students are lab rats. As usual, these scientists have no consideration for others. Since Takumi is a former soldier along with pretty everyone else, I wonder if Cain wasn’t one as well and he defected to Dorssia or made it look that way to be an insider. Besides, Cain still hasn’t reported L-Elf so whatever he’s planning involves him. It’s possible those two are dealing under the noses of their own countries.
POWUH: Meta Team and Spammy Tamer with 7115 comments
Well, I am guessing the thing with ‘hungry’ is that Haruto basically keeps getting his vampiric urges interrupted. I would guess he needs to go suck on someone’s neck at some point. I wonder if Saki’s been out there lining up her own guys, because we don’t see her having these troubles that Haruto does.
POWUH: and Vampire Lover with 11746 comments
Like the use of Insteads in Dansai Bunri no Crime Edge to keep the Authors insatiable urges to kill in check. Seeing how manipulative Saki has proven herself to be, I wouldn’t put it past her (especially after how she wrapped her arms around Haruto before biting. Never let a vampire get that close to you). But for now, I think something has to happen to her physically. Haruto’s urges to bite surfaced the first time when when L-Elf killed him and his body reacted like a fail safe mechanism. So I think the same has to happen to the others since they haven’t been mortally wounded yet.
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10998 comments
I dunno, that suggests something more sinister than the show leads us to believe. But dang, that is some interesting stuff there.
POWUH: Meta Team and PreCure Mastah with 9203 comments
Oooooh best trainwreck category actually sounds amazing! I will try to remember that one xD
I still wish that each Valvrave gave a different curses, but ah well the vampire thing has grown on me even though I still can’t see a whole lot of uses for switching bodies other than if you get hurt xD
Good question! I have no idea what space vampires crave…
POWUH: and Vampire Lover with 11746 comments
Be sure to write it down somewhere!
The “Do you resign as a human?” question is ominous and sinks into the mind. With so much going on because of that one life changing choice sometimes I wished that Rinne no Lagrange had that function in the Voxs in order to operate. It would be something if Madoka, Lan and Muginami went around losing themselves and biting people.
Thunder may act like ass at times but at least he has a sense of honor wanting to avenge a friend. At first, I didn’t like him and didn’t want to consider him getting a Valvrave but the complete opposite has happened so there’s nothing that can help it now and it kind of suits him. Once he eventually learns to be a team player, I might change my opinion of him. As for appearance, is anyone thinking Yu Yu Hakusho’s Kuwabara?
What has my interest is that there may be a deeper meaning to each Valvrave depending on what they’re equipped with. Saki’s “Carmilla” has multiple legs while Thunder’s has multiple arms and Kyuuma has a shield cape. Each one could a piece for something. As for the abilities, the body swapping might be the most common for all and each one develops an ability unique to each individual. I’m sure whatever is needed to satisfy their “hunger” lies in whenever they switch bodies. Haruto was like that the first time he bit L-Elf and he went back to normal afterwards.
If the entire module is a testing ground under JIOR then that means the president, Shoko’s father, is deeply involved. If it turns out to be true, why would he put his own daughter there if the students are expendable test subjects? Unless she’s somehow being groomed to takeover after him and needed her to be more familiar with what she’s meant to inherit and I doubt she’d take a liking to that. If she is to be the last pilot, that could be her reason for jumping in whereas other than Saki, the pilots became so out of revenge. Also, it could be something to ease Haruto’s conscience since he stopped himself from confessing to her because he considers himself a monster. I can definitely Shoko sacrificing her humanity to be a monster alongside him if she knew everything that’s going on.
POWUH: and Athenaeum Châtelaine with 2212 comments
Believe me, the first time I saw Thunder I told my brother, “Hey! It’s Kuwabara! Haven’t seen him in a while.” The guy even wears a similar uniform.
POWUH: and Vampire Lover with 11746 comments
I noticed it myself after a while but I waited to see if anyone else thought the same.
POWUH: Meta Team and PreCure Mastah with 9203 comments
OH WOW! Thunder is totally the long lost brother of Kuwabara ahahaha
POWUH: and Vampire Lover with 11746 comments
Now we just need a Valvrave version of Hiei to cramp his style at every turn.
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10998 comments
Yes, the machine inside a Valvrave said it was hungry. My favorite revelation so far….
Cain and L’elf as co-conspirators? This is likely, but these dudes seem to be working their own personal business angles so perhaps Cain is willing to let L’elf go about his own plans while waiting for the back burner to start boiling…
POWUH: and Vampire Lover with 11746 comments
Yeah, that one made me burst out laughing. Now what does something like that crave for? I’d understand if she was an organic based being.
No, I mean L-Elf somehow being Cain’s unknowing pawn in whatever plan he has in mind. He’s being far too laid back and I think he hasn’t done anything concerning L-Elf because things are going the way he wants. It wouldn’t be shocking if he had him personally trained. He’s even satisfied by the fact more Valvraves are popping up and it’s obvious he isn’t acting on Dorssia’s behalf.
POWUH: Meta Team and PreCure Mastah with 9203 comments
Motor oil or energon from Transformers universe? xD
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10998 comments
It overheats? Coolant…
POWUH: and Vampire Lover with 11746 comments
LOL. Somehow I doubt that will fit that OS’s liking.
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10998 comments
It could crave faces?
POWUH: Meta Team and PreCure Mastah with 9203 comments
hahahah nice
POWUH: and Vampire Lover with 11746 comments
Now that’s just creepy. 😉
POWUH: and Athenaeum Châtelaine with 2212 comments
I agree, I think either Cain and L-elf are working together or L-elf is unknowingly Cain’s pawn. Cain looks to be incredibly shrewd, but doesn’t seem the bit interested in any of the battles thus far. In fact, the look on his face looks the same as the one on L-elf’s during the battle in this latest episode: totally unmoved and nonchalant, as if nothing that’s going on right now matters, because he is two steps ahead and everything is going according to plan.
And look at how he treats L-elf’s defection. This is more than likely Karlstein’s top graduate we’re talking about here, and Karlstein is such a brutal, deadly training facility that H-9 and X-1 were the only students in their year to graduate. I would think that if such a top-tier special ops agent suddenly went rogue, Cain would be showing quite a bit more concern than he has been. In fact he actually seems more amused than anything else.
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10998 comments
Yeah, being an unknown pawn is what I was talking about. I didn’t write that very well….
POWUH: iLurker with 9 comments
As much as I would love for either Shoko or L-Elf to pilot the last Valvrave, I don’t think it’ll b either of them. My theory is that, in the opening, after Haruto and L-Elf are shown, it then the other characters, starting with Ruki, the Kyuma, and then Raizo, all of who became Valvrave Pilots in that order. And who appears next…it’s Akira! Now that I think about it, it would make total sense if she became the last pilot as it would give her some character development. Plus…the last Valvrave is purple and has a wand! It really needs a female pilot.
Plus, L-Elf looks like he’s content with working behind the scenes right nows, and it’s usually those type’s of people who have the most power.
POWUH: iLurker with 9 comments
Meant to say Saki, not Ruki. Damm autocorrect…
POWUH: and Vampire Lover with 11746 comments
We understand what you mean, nonetheless.