Hai to Gensou no Grimgar – 05

grimgar 5-001

…and Yume likes being warm…

….I remember the first time I ever broke up in a relationship with someone of significance. It felt terrible, and I didn’t know where to turn. A friend told me that time does heal all wounds, but time….rather frustratingly….takes time.

But Sometimes it’s hard to swallow…

…old faces….new faces…

Of course, Manato’s passing is more than just two people parting ways. Both are transitions to be sure, but “there are other fish in the all the seas” is one thing,” the fish being totally eaten” is another. I would count down the stages of grief, but won’t because 1)the show doesn’t, and 2)it’s tedious. But the show does address these issues and moves quite well with them.

I love the opening conversation with Ranta and Haruhiro. It is so terribly personal and mundane. What are we going to do next? It doesn’t deal with the pain of the loss they’ve just suffered. It’s time to move on after all. But as the conversation moves on we get the parts in the play; they bicker back and forth to both prove they’re alive and to hold off on the one thing they don’t want to do, which does come later in the program. For now, they’ve got the all powerful Moguzo to keep their anger in check.

There is also the addition of Mary, which proves to be a great way to bring in a new character in a very interesting way. As she very clearly states, “you guys are such a mess”, and it does indeed show. But by making her very much a one note character in this encounter does rather underscore the point that, “you met us in a very very bad place”. I hope that time does indeed take time, and a second impression will prove better. The group needs a healer, but not before they’re healed in other ways.

Rearrange them in your mind…

…lowest rung…..top of the ladder…

They’re a party, but that means a collection of individuals as much as anything. The show is making the argument that they aren’t quite there yet, they aren’t over enough of rough edges to say they’re a real party. If anything, the lose of Manato and the addition of Mary clearly shows that none of them have really adapted to the roles they choose. The makings of is there, but they keep getting held back. Sure you have a healer, but do you need that all the time, can you toughen up? Yes, you can press the attack, but can the enemy retreat, and can they regroup quicker than you can?

For our main group the answer to that is: no, just not quite there yet. This is deeply contrasted with the reintroduction of Reiji and his group. They weren’t on the screen very long, but do they make one hell of an impression. Reiji wanted to take that one step further and do the charitable thing. That was a neat flourish to add, giving us some depth to the character and at the same time suggesting a connection he had to Manato that was never stated, in that the departed had Reiji’s respect, but did he have much of it? I ask that as a question for a reason. What do you think? I get that there was a huge gulf between them, and there is quite a bit to fit in that gulf. For all that, there looks to be a world of difference between these two party’s and that would be a great place to explore, I hope they set out for it….

 the sun has set, and mourning is to come….

Well, Shi? Maybe Ranta is available?

Finally we have the moment that we all needed. The fire had been built, and the pot was filled with water. All that was needed was the eventual boil. Both Haru and Yume break when the realize it isn’t so much the party that has been broken, but themselves as persons. They haven’t lost a leader and a healer and a steady rock upon which to depend, they’ve lost a close friend. To her credit, Yume was far ahead of Haru in this realization, but just couldn’t come up with the words.

I’m hoping both of these two can grow from this situation. For the shippers out there beware, for this will probably turn out as bitter-sweet as it was here. They found comfort in each other true, but that doesn’t necessary bring us a great relationship. I did love the total embarrassment it brought with them, and that was a great way to break the tension and to heighten the mood at the end there. Life isn’t just the huge moments, it’s also the random bits as well….

Where do we go from here? Well, I’ve heard more death flags. But that’s the thing isn’t it. Anime, games, LNs have us soooooo groomed to look for them all the bloody time. Frankly it get’s in the way of the story, and I found that last episode, I enjoyed it better without looking for them or allowing myself the inclinatin to let them be tripped. I say that because I’ll bring up the conversation this episode started with. The fact that Manato used magic to willingly and to often and put himself on the front line was brought up, then swept under the rug in an instant. Then it became far to easy to focus on Mary then to address it again. They’ve not handled this completely as of yet, and I don’t think the mourning has burned it off entirely. But that’s just my opinion…..But….

Next time: Looks like Mary has her own story to tell with “Her Circumstances”

On the other side…

grimgar 5-011

And now for something different….

Fanservice in my fantasy?!


All around nerd that enjoys just about any anime genre. I love history, politics, public policy, the sciences, literature, arts...pretty much anything can make me geeky...except sports. Follow me @theskylion
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37 Responses to “Hai to Gensou no Grimgar – 05”

  1. Highway says:

    There were a lot of nice touches in this episode that I really cared for. For one, I really liked Mary’s character. Hard, pragmatic, not obliged to go along to get along, not pulling any punches. But I felt like she’s not being a dick about it. It felt like she actually felt like she belonged in the group, but she wasn’t the leader, and was looking for the leader to… lead the group. In Manato, they realize they lost their leader and their healer, but only with the addition of Mary do they understand that it’s far easier to replace one than the other.

    I also really liked the way Mikako Komatsu (who I think is excellent in any role) played Yume this episode. From the lilting story she told about Elhit-chan last episode, and now when she confronts Haruhiro about leaving them out of their healing and support that lilt is gone, the uptalking is gone, the affectation is gone. But when they both cry and find comfort in each others arms, it comes back, giving a wonderful indication of how comfortable she actually is there.

    • skylion says:

      I think it’s hard on the group, as they got te healer, but they didn’t get the healer, or more important, the person they lost. Manato struck me early on in the show as someone who wanted to be needed more than anything else; something I think Reiji might have understood, but more on that as the show progresses. He was happy as a puppy to put himself everywhere, spreading himself out way to thin. He literally was too good….So no, Mary isn’t that person…but how and where she fits in is a story I’m anxious to follow.

      Mikako Komatus isn’t really a voice that stands out too me; I had to look her up, and am chiding myself for forgetting she was Marika in Morestsu Pirates, Shion from SoraMess, and Miuna from Sea Kids on the Lull…But yeah, I agree, she’s really knocked it out of the park for this role, which has become a surprise break out character; even if you take the fanservice out of the equation…

  2. HannoX says:

    So who has the more abrasive personality, Ranta or Mary?

    I think Mary will be good for their party. The rest of them still haven’t adjusted to the realities of their new world and their place in it. They need a hard-headed practical person like her to point them out. (“So what if you got cut? It’s not serious–deal with it. I have to save my magic for serious injuries.”) She could be less blunt and abrasive about it, but maybe she feels a metaphorical few buckets of cold water is what they need to shape up. Or it could be that that’s her personality and they’ll just have to accept it like they have Ranta’s.

    • skylion says:

      Oh goodness, I would find Ranta more abrasive….But I never looked at it- that if they got used to Ranta,they can get used to Mary….

    • ProtoSovereign says:

      I can’t say too much about Mary, cuz I’m pretty sure next ep will explain why she is what she’s like and all. But I don’t think Mary is like Ranta at all. Mary isn’t asking for trouble, she’s not being cold and blunt to piss people off. I get the feeling Ranta though does act annoying partly to get attention or something along those lines. (and it gets him so much hate from the fanbase, poor Ranta that misunderstood fellow) Show ▼

      • skylion says:

        I rather like Ranta, he’s not that difficult to understand. He’s just really insecure, and get’s anxious when the world doesn’t work out the way he figures it would; or at least he used to be really anxious, and that has lessened as he got a bit older….

        • ProtoSovereign says:

          All of the characters are really growing, Ranta brought up the important question of what to do after the loss of Manato and tried spur the others into action, they needed to move on. Haruhiro is becoming a fine leader from what I can see, as he reflected on his exclusion of Yume and Shihoru and the issues raised by Ranta. Show ▼

          • skylion says:

            Show ▼

            • ProtoSovereign says:

              Show ▼

              I do wonder how Manato would handle Mary if he were still alive and in the party though…

            • Highway says:

              Unfortunately, we have a little-too-aggressive spam filter for comments, and frequently a legitimate comment will be flagged as spam. We do check regularly for them and approve them manually. The best thing to do, if it appears you had a comment caught (the page refreshes and the url shows a comment-###### at the end), is really just wait for it to get approved. Making the same comment again will likely just get caught again, and leave us with two that we have to decide between.

              But we do like having commenters, and don’t like having their thoughts stuck where noone can see them, so we check as frequently as possible.

  3. IreneSharda says:

    Grief is something that every person has to deal with in their own way, but it’s also something that MUST be dealt with.

    The party has become shattered and splintered, and it’s extremely hard to heal. It’s a process that will take some time. The group will have to reassess their positions and rise up to take over the holes that have been left by Manato. He honestly shouldn’t have been in some of the positions he was in, and now that he’s gone, they’re beginning to realize how much he covered them.

    As for Mary, she has some good points, but she’s got to learn to adapt to this new group. If not, they might have to dump her. A party has to be able to work well together, if not, it will splinter again. I don’t like Mary right now, but maybe she’ll get better with time.

    With the Renji thing, I understand what they were trying to get at, but I also chalk it up to that whole Japanese culture/male in general pride thing, and I’m sorry, but not only would I have taken the freakin’ money. (Money is money, I don’t really care how it was given. Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth.) But also I would have asked for help from Renji and his group. It’s obvious that he has progressed at a much faster rate with a larger degree of success overall. Instead of continuing to flounder, how about asking for a bit of guidance? In fact, considering their drunk friend, it actually looks like pretty much everybody but them have advanced. It is nice to see them struggle, but you do what them to advance eventually, and instead of going through unnecessary work and trouble, why not ask for help and direction? Or is that another “pride” thing too?

    • skylion says:

      While I agree that money is money, and not taking it is a bit idiotic, it’s more than a symbolic victory to NOT take it. They planned on getting their licenses with that gold, and that is license bought cheap; which mean that’s life bought cheap since the long grind to earn that badge means you really have found all the right parts to earn that badge. They would be doing themselves harm with that gold in the long run. To me, that tells me a great deal about Haru and a great deal about Reiji as well. That later has a degree of thoughtlessness to him, and his level of advancement in comparison to Haru’s group may be cheaply bought as well….

      As for getting help from his group. This isn’t an MMO. It’s not asking an advanced player to sacrifice time to help out, but life…not that easy…So all the work is necessary. Life isn’t a shortcut…

      • IreneSharda says:

        For me, a license is but a tool. It’s something that is bought supposedly proving that you passed all the levels, but the fact that it can be bought rather than really earned, makes it nothing but a piece of paper to me. (or in this case, a necklace). A really rich man could not train at all and still buy his way up the ranks as it is.

        To me, I would have accepted it, bought badges and then used that to gather better supplies, jobs, etc. for my party. I’m rather pragmatic like that. I mean, it’s life that will judge my and everyone else’s skills, especially in this kill or be killed world. So, yes, if I can get a leg up, I’ll use whatever advantage I can get.

      • HannoX says:

        I would have taken the money, although I don’t know if I would buy the licenses with it. That money could have been used to give the party several days to deal with their grief and not have to go out and risk their lives while still emotionally devastated, which would probably leave them distracted and less focused on surviving their encounters with the goblins. It could also have bought them better equipment and supplies, bettering their chances of survival.

        Renji wasn’t being condescending by giving them the gold. He was trying to help/offer condolences for their loss. Haruhiro needs to learn there’s such a thing as false pride and there’s nothing wrong with accepting charity when you could use it. They could always repay the gold later. But I imagine most viewers will think he did the right thing.

        • Highway says:

          I disagree, like I said below: Reiji was being ostentatious with his ‘gift’, and it was likely on purpose. There are plenty of reasons to not accept charity, and this was a fine one.

    • skylion says:

      I would take the money too, I just like watching the argument…

    • Highway says:

      I would have rejected such an ostentatious gift as well. Because that’s what it was. It wasn’t really Reiji feeling sorrow about Manato, or genuine concern for their circumstances. It was pity, and pride. Pride that “I’m doing well enough that I can give you a gold.” Pity that “You guys are doing so poorly that you had to scrape together a precious silver to bury Manato.” And this is from a guy who basically looked at the 12 people that showed up at the same time, said “I’m taking the six best, best of luck, losers.” and left them to fend for themselves. He may have had respect for Manato, but he had no respect for the rest of them, and that came through strongly to me in that scene.

      As for Mary, she has some good points, but she’s got to learn to adapt to this new group.

      Why? If everything they are doing is wrong, why should she have any responsibility for adapting? This has not been a very functional group, they were barely scraping by, not because they were using good tactics and having good personal growth but because they were picking on goblins who were even weaker and more useless than they are.

      There was nothing Mary did in the entire bit she was in that was in any way inappropriate. Yes, she was curt, and headstrong, but it wasn’t like she acted like a princess or expected any special treatment. She bluntly pointed out the ways that the rest of the group was crummy, and barely even complained about it, and continued to go along with them.

      • HannoX says:

        I agree about Mary. She was right when she took the rest of them to task and is right to refuse to fight in the front lines and use her healing magic when it isn’t necessary. It was partly Manato’s fault, but the rest of them depended too much on him and he tried too hard to protect them, which retarded their growth as volunteer soldiers. Plus it got him killed.

        • skylion says:

          I will agree on the condition that she needs to learn to make that mace of hers more than for show…She might not have to do it, but she needs to pack an unopened can of whoopass….

          • Highway says:

            The focus of one’s magical casting is NOT something you use to bonk goblins on the head. Do you also think Shihoru should be up there next to Moguzo? Plus, Mary is party support, not offense.

            Basically, Manato played his role like a moron, exposing himself to unnecessary danger (although his death was not related to that) and providing a crutch for his party that impeded their progress.

            • skylion says:

              But she should have some offensive abilities….

            • ProtoSovereign says:

              Show ▼

              Also wasn’t it a staff not a mace? :P. Its true Mary does have the right idea about things though, Manato was ‘babying’ them too much and overextending himself. However I disagree though that his death was unrelated though since his actions of being last in the retreat and over abusing his magic lead directly to demise. Oh and I think you meant self-defense abilities 😉 a priest leading the charge is awesome but impractical.

      • sonicsenryaku says:

        sorry highway but i kinda disagree with you on mary; well partly. I do agree that she is absolutely in the right in regards to voicing the inexperience of the group. However,her criticisms and complaints are not constructive. When a professor has to tell you that your paper is terrible, they dont just tell you that and call it quits unless they are a bad professor. A good professor makes sure that they elaborate on why your paper may not be up to snuff and provide tips and tricks to making your paper stronger. Sure Mary is telling the group why they suck, but she isnt doing anything to help make them better. It then makes it seem like she is just criticizing them for the sake of doing so and only looking after herself. Ive always said that if you are part of a team, you notice a problem, and make no attempts to help fix it, then you become part of the problem as well.

        Irenesharda is right in that Mary needs to learn to adapt to this new group and by that i dont mean she needs to play by their rules. She needs to understand why they are the way they are and actively help them become better rather than just passively standing around like her party is not her concern because it is and should be her concern. She’s correct for telling them they suck but yet is incorrect for thinking it’s none of her concern like “woman, why are in their party in the first place then?”

  4. Overcooled says:

    Oh man, this episode was almost as heavy as the last one for me. I like that everyone was either penting up their emotions or displacing it towards something else (i.e. alcohol). It made the rush of released emotions between Haru and Yume at the end all the better after all that tension building up. Everyone deals with death in different ways and they visibly show different levels of sorrow, but really, they’re all feeling just the same inside. It helps to talk (and hug) it out! No point acting tough when you all have the same burden.

    I kind of wish the sweet moment between Yume and Haru didn’t turn into a “AHHH, HOW EMBARRASSING!!!” moment. And so the LN roots rear their ugly head for the briefest of moments. (A minor complaint though, as thus far this has been anything but typical aside from the odd fanservice shot.)

    As for Mary, I’m not sure how I feel about her yet…So far she seems pretty snippy, but it’s hard to argue with her since everything she says is kind of true. Also, from her perspective this party REALLY IS a mess. She’s doing them a huge favour just by accompanying them. Looking forward to seeing more of her next week to see what her deal is!

    • skylion says:

      Yeah, I’m hoping Mary’s circumstances will be similar to our gang’s, “You met us when we were in a bad place”. I like the idea that people meet each other when everyone is in conflict with something. It’s just that sometimes you meet a person just when they’re handling that one conflict in a fairly good way.

      I can kinda give the “LN moment” it’s due. It feels like it rounds out the scene with all the emotions it can, but yeah, it felt fudgey, and not in a good way…

    • ProtoSovereign says:

      Show ▼

    • sonicsenryaku says:

      yup, i thought that “comical” scene had no place in that moment. Completely ruined it. hated it, and i already give this show enough flack. LN roots were definitely showing with that “comical” intrusion

      • skylion says:

        I mean, it wasn’t on the top of the Awesome We Must Do This All The Time List, but it wasn’t this bad, surely…

      • Highway says:

        I dunno, it seemed authentic to me. I don’t think I’m that different from any normal guy when I was growing up, and even if it’s an emotional moment, I’d think pretty much any guy is still going to have some other thoughts. And with the change in focus thanks to Shihoru seeing them, it made sense and fit that they’d realize the other thing it looked like. Remember that the number one purpose of the human animal is to make more human animals, so for the most part, almost every part of our beings is going to think of that first. That we get other stuff done in the meantime is just an auxiliary benefit.

        • sonicsenryaku says:

          yea but id rather have those human animals involved in the situation realize the awkward position they are in rather than someone intruding on it. It was the execution of the scene that i and some people have a problem with, not the fact that comedy was injected into the scene. Im not saying it was a serious enough misstep that it made me livid, however i do think it ruined that emotional moment and i didnt like that.

          If they wanted to bring levity into that situation, all they had to do was have haruhiro start to get flustered and comment innocently on how they looked after taking in Yume’s warm comment in for a couple secs. Yume would then get a bit embarrassed and they’d both sit there blushing for a couple seconds in awkward silence before quickly breaking away from each other and whistling nervously as if nothing happened. They could then bookend that by having the two smile warmly at each other, acknowledging that even though the realized how embarrassing the situation looked, they took comfort in being in each others arms and can move on from their grief. See? much better and down to earth in my opinion. The way it was executed here, turned the situation into a cliche and that’s what ruined it for me.

          My point is that ive seen comical levity brought into a sad and tender moment in other series and it’s done with more genuine emotion than it was here. The execution here was uninspired and sort of lame which is why i compared it to silly LN shenanigans.

          • Highway says:

            Well, the embarrassment is something that can only be produced by seeing things from a 3rd party’s perspective. So until the idea of Shihoru seeing them crossed Haruhiro’s mind, there wasn’t going to be embarrassment. Plus, I think the scene as it is added emotional depth in the form of letting us see what Shihoru was feeling as well: After Yume has just been telling Haruhiro that the girls are both people and friends of Manato, and would have liked to share in the grief and support and catharsis of the boys, we have a scene where Yume is able to access that support with Haruhiro… yet Shihoru is left out. That was more what I saw from her inclusion in the scene, her feelings at not being included with Yume’s catharsis, when she and Yume had had to support each other after being left out by the boys.

            • sonicsenryaku says:

              I wouldnt say that this particular type of embarrassment was something that could only be seen from a third party’s perspective. Think about it this way: I wouldnt need a 3rd party to start thinking “hormonal” thoughts about a girl clinging all over me right? So then it begs to reason that i wouldnt need another person’s perspective to realize that the position im in is a bit compromising; Same with haruhiro and Yume (i really adore mikako komatsu by the way; one of my favorite seiyuu working right now even though she hasnt given a ground-breaking performance yet but she oozes talent tho and that’s more than enough to appreciate her work). As a matter of fact, according to readers of the LN (this shouldnt even be considered a spoiler at all since we’ve already covered this material in the anime but i will tag it just in case. This is in regards to how things played out in the Ln version of this scene) Show ▼

              And in regards to your thesis about shihoru’s involvement, it would be cool if the scene expanded on Shihoru’s feelings or let us into her mind a little, but in all honesty, it didnt say anything about her state of emotion. It didnt speak to the audience at all and it didnt say anything about her feelings about being left out of finding catharsis in comfort of another in a poignant way (or any kind of way for that matter). She literally appeared in the scene to be a gag and that’s it and it came off really cliche. Now mind you, cliche’s arent bad when used right (it irks me when people use the word “cliches” to automatically denounce something as bad) but this was a case where the cliche was not used right. If it properly exemplified everything you said in regards to shihoru being left out, i would have been fine with it, but it did not do a good job with subtlely conveying that whatsoever. But hey, im glad that the scene worked for some people. It wasnt a big deal to me but it did have me shaking my head in slight dismay like “really grimgar?” but then i have to remember what kind of show this is

            • skylion says:

              I would argue that the moment we’re talking about here is nothing more than a narrative tool. Let’s just assume for a moment that it has been used in ways that are less than interesting, and somewhat tone deaf when inserted into the scene. But, like any sort of device we, the fans, try to slap the label of “fanservice” or “LN moment” on, it starts to get supercharged. By that I mean it’s a hot button topic sort of thing. Really it’s still just a narrative device, which is subjective. No device is really meant to hold all the hot button topic weight that fans tend to give it….

            • sonicsenryaku says:

              you’re right skylion i agree; however, these hot topic labels are used in accordance with the areas of media we see them used a lot in. People tend to us the term “Ln moment” because ln’s are usually associated with bad writing. We see these contrived moments occur in this medium because Ln’s are written for the most part by inexperienced writers who dont really have a handle on subtlety, exposition, plot consistency, character writing, dialogue, etc. A good amount of the time, it’s unrestrained wish fulfillment. I mean any type of creative writing has some sort of wish fulfillment in it, but what separates that from the type we see in ln’s is, as i mentioned, is that it’s unrestrained and unfocused.

              Anyway, my point is that even if something is a just a narrative tool, that tool can be used incorrectly in the same way someone may incorrectly use bleach to wash colored clothing. We see simple narrative tools in Ln’s being used incorrectly, without much subtlety, or just plain being overused to the point of cliche. As a result of suhc inexperienced writing, it’s just easier to use the term “ln moment” to represent when a narrative element is used in a sloppy manner….at least in anime. But hey, unfortunately, the it’s easier for the human mind to identify labels and so they become arguably necessary. But yes you’re right, people tend to focus too much on the label and at times, they miss the point, in the same way, someone is quick to label something cliche rather than putting importance on the execution and context of what’s happening.

        • ProtoSovereign says:

          Yeah, it can be considered fan-service but its very reasonable to have it included, considering their circumstances and how Grimgar seems to want to explore that in detail. Truthfully, none of them are immune to the what highway has described. Show ▼

          This is completely unrelated but the way Highway used ‘human animals’ seemed like something Yume would say. I guess this show has been very influential XD.

          • Highway says:

            I’d say that’s more just how I talk. 🙂 After 45 years, I’m not that likely to be influenced too much by 5 episodes of an anime.

            • skylion says:

              “When you are alone you are the cat, you are the phone, you are an animal/The words I’m sayin’ now mean nothing more than meow to an animal”

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