Jun12
Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet – 10
Chamber is ready to star in FREE!
 While E3’s happening, how about Gargantia the Game? Play as Chamber fighting against the Hideauze, that’d be pretty cool. Maybe play as Amy making deliveries? So not every anime can convert well enough to a game… anyways, just Fosh & I to talk about why Pinion’s an ass and the difference between humans and the Hideauze. |
 Yeah Jrow E3 is happening and there are so many games to play, but now we have to talk about Gargantia episode ten! Woooooooo! |
Podcast: Play in new window | Download (Duration: 10:08 — 10.0MB)
Extra Gargantia fun
Poor Red I feel bad for him this week…
hnnngggggg.jpeg
I bet he is spying on Bellows right guys?
Red is not having a good day today…
Preview
Dem backstories and plots all in your face!
Chamber meets his friend!
About Tag Team
We live, laugh, enjoy and strictly believe on "more the merrier". When together, we usually come up with very chatty, conversation-based episodics and interesting posts.
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10997 comments
Flange sees what he is doing as a necessary risk. He has to be able to help his society progress, the status quo cannot last much longer.
Pinion sees what he is doing as a natural reaction. Take revenge? Yes? Take power? Yes, that is what he perceives that power does. It has it. Using it for everyone, to a higher purpose? Nope, you have it to have it. To get more stuff….
Man, Chambers analysis of humanity is quite spot on. That’s some pretty interesting material there. It isn’t some made up uber plot that is terrorizing humanity. It’s just the survival strategy that every living being has to face. Feel safe in your living room?
I have no idea what to think about the possible return of the commander. To few clues dropped for me to say, much like you guys.
Melty put the point to Flange. Pinion is very much trying to reach an ends, whatever the means. Flange sees the means they can reach as shaping the end. Good to see the old guy step up and put a clear boundary. That has to be explored, cause someone has to put a foot down on Pinion. He isn’t a bad guy. But this episode shows he might have the makings for one.
Good review guys….see you for the double up.
POWUH: and Athenaeum Châtelaine with 2212 comments
I agree on the Flange part, I actually always thought of him more as a man who wished to advance his people using the forgotten tech for the benefit of everyone. It was Pinion that I had reservations about. And what do ya know? It was Pinion that has begun to be a bit too big for his britches.
I just hope that his actions don’t hurt Gargantia and the rest of Earth’s progress from advancing once again. Chamber’s speech about humans’ penchant to continue to advance, goes towards Gargantia and Earth as well. They have been stagnant for too long, happy to just let things stay as they are. However, I think the shifting of Ridget as leader as well as the movements some of the fleet to seek out better things for themselves, shows that an era of change is slowly coming to the humans of Earth.
POWUH: Meta Team and Spammy Tamer with 7115 comments
The other mechanic’s name is Mayta, I believe.
I don’t know if I agree with Chamber’s analysis of the war. Basically, he’s saying that the Hideauze have abandoned their humanity, chosen a path where they have essentially devolved (more on this below), and accepting that premise means that the G.A. *must* fight against them. I don’t quite see why they must fight; after all, humans don’t fight wars against apes or tigers or sharks, Discovery Channel notwithstanding. It really seemed like Chamber was saying “You have no choice, you cannot choose not to fight, you must fight to the death”. And I don’t see how that follows. What’s Chamber going to do if Red doesn’t ever get in him again? Grab him and stuff him in the pilot seat?
Continuing off that, I thought they indicated some of the limits of Chamber’s agency in this episode. We wondered if he was, essentially, programmatically refuting the veracity of the Evolver’s clip show on orders of the G.A. I think that goes out the window this episode when he comes to Red and volunteers that he has verified the information and it is truthful. That’s not what I think he would do if he is compelled by programming to deny the other side of the war. That raised my opinion of him, as a machine (and of the G.A. actually). I don’t agree with his later argumentation, nor do I follow how “Because the lightbugs are nano-hideauze, we have to kill all the big hideauze.” That just seemed like a weird logic jump to me.
Regarding the different paths of evolution, I think it’s fairly dogmatic to say “We chose the path of keeping our bodies the same and using machines to increase our capability, therefore we are more pure and superior. Those who chose to change their bodies have forfeited their humanity and must be killed.” I didn’t get the message that they have ‘devolved’ into just animals. It was more that because they eschewed tool using, instead making their bodies the tools, they have gone down some path of the forsaken. That to me seems like the kind of stance that a group of zealots would take, condemning others who are sentient for reasons that suit them.
I did think that Red was a little bit too emo this episode, but hey, 16 year old kid with no actual life experience, something like that probably will hit him pretty hard. Pinion really ramped up the jerkass quotient, tho. He went from “lovable rogue” to “power-hungry tool with delusions of grandeur”.
POWUH: Meta Resident and LN Informant with 1529 comments
For us, the viewers, to determine whether ultimately the Alliance or Hideauze are in the right or wrong, we need a deeper insight into both sides. We need to see how characters from both sides act/react to the war and its related events to truly understand each side.
For example, shows like Majestic Prince provide insights into both the Earth forces and the Wulgaru aliens through character interactions on both sides, and thus viewers have more information to draw a conclusion as to which side is right or wrong.
In Gargantia, the audience has not been given a more detailed insight into Alliance society, save for expositional info given by Ledo and Chamber. Similarly hardly any insight has been given on the space Hideauze community and whetehr they are capable of human interaction and thinking.
All we can do is theorize unless the animators choose to elaborate on this further.
PS. There is a light novel prequel that elaborates on Ledo’s formative years in the Alliance,but is only available in Japanese. Unless someone out there translates it into English, foreign anime-only viewers will be missing out on a significant chunk of world-building.
http://blog.livedoor.jp/geek/archives/51395981.html
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=119845
POWUH: Meta Team and Spammy Tamer with 7115 comments
I’ve tried to take the opinion that, really, both sides are ‘right’ and both sides are ‘wrong’. That’s the way human wars are. We frequently have this historical perspective of wars of ‘this side was right (the winners) and this side was wrong (the losers)’, which is usually just because winners write history.
To me, Chamber’s explanation of why Red needs to continue sounded more like ingrained propaganda than rational analysis. Being a little unkind, it unwound to me as “We have to fight them because they mock our humanity, and we must prove our path is better.” That’s what I was getting with the idea of zealotry.
It’s true we don’t really have an idea of what the interstellar war is really predicated on. And I almost wish that hadn’t really come up in the show (although I’m likely a minority in that). I would have loved if the show had never brought up the Hideauze except as a far off spectre, hadn’t allowed Red to make contact with anyone from the G.A., and had instead been “How does Red discover his humanity in this world that’s so different from his own.”
POWUH: and Vampire Lover with 11746 comments
Jrow, Pinion being an “asshole” is a serious understatement. There was trouble not throwing a fit watching this because of Pinion predictably going on a power trip over gaining some trinkets that he, himself, didn’t have the nerve to get. Honestly, I was expecting him to turn out like this. Recklessly letting anyone join him because he has greater firepower and monopolizing materials is just going to lead to an eventual revolt. A textbook example of the negativities of human nature. During this run, I honestly felt like I wanted to jump in and strangle him for his selfish ambitions.
I can’t fully support Chamber analysis on humans and how things must be done. A machine passing judgment over sentient beings is in itself ridiculous (Psycho-Pass, anyone?). While what he says may have logic on the war front, it’s absolutely void of morals. Modified human or not, you’re still taking a life. Is it right to kill someone simply because they don’t agree with someone else’s way of survival? I think not. To each his own manner of survival because one way of going about it doesn’t work for everyone. More so if each sides aren’t looking for conflict and from what we see in the videos, they still retain some part of their humanity. And he’s wrong, Ledo does have a choice. Unlike Chamber, he isn’t programmed to do anything.
POWUH: and Athenaeum Châtelaine with 2212 comments
I very much agreed with Chamber, and I thought it was ironic and refreshing that he was the one to explain things to Red. Red unfortunately, is a teenager and he’s letting his emotions cloud his mind. Chamber simply broke down the facts of the case and explained it to his charge.
Whatever the war began as, whether a disagreement on the morals of illegal experimentation in order to advance the human body or even a zealous hatred of one group versus another, it is really not about that anymore. Too much time has gone by, the original reason for the war has been lose, and it has now progressed to simply a war of survival.
Now, remember that the Hideauze are now a space-faring species, they could choose anywhere else in the galaxy to live. Why do they particularly continue to follow and attack the GA? Even an animal would know when to leave and make its own territory else where. Yet, the GA have been traveling through space for centuries now, and the Hideauze has been there dogging them every step of the way. The Humans aren’t seeking out the Hideauze, the Hideauze are following them. The Hideauze attacks, the GA fires back in kind and we have the war we have today. The GA are now fighting for their survival. If they don’t fight, they will die.
Finding out the origins of the war doesn’t change the fact that you still have to fight. The Hideauze don’t have any qualms about killing humans and if you don’t fight back, you are simply just making things easier for them.
POWUH: Meta Team and Spammy Tamer with 7115 comments
The only thing I think you might be assuming too much about is that we don’t really know that the Hideauze are the sole aggressors in the war. If it’s been mentioned at all, it’s from the point of view of the G.A., and we know that they aren’t necessarily forthcoming with the full truth. So I have to take the idea that the Hideauze are the ones ‘continuing’ the war unilaterally with a grain of salt. As you say (and I’ve said before) if they can live virtually anywhere, then why is there active conflict between the two? I find it difficult to swallow “because they’re just mean and keep attacking us” as the reason. There’s likely a lot more to the story. And let’s not forget that the series started with the G.A. attacking a (the?) ‘home’ of the Hideauze. They justified it to themselves (and to us) as preemption, but is that the whole story?
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10997 comments
Preemptive strike is often a whole slew of stories…All of them pretty much bi-polar.
POWUH: and Vampire Lover with 11746 comments
It’s all about who causes the most damage.
POWUH: Meta Resident with 1692 comments
I have to agree with Highway that we only have the G.A.’s claim of who started the war. But however the war started it has now become a war of survival for both. I’m not sure either one can break off the conflict and just leave, thus ending the war. So from an evolutionary and species standpoint both are justified in trying to exterminate the other in order to ensure their own survival. The Hideauze are as much in the “right” as the G.A. in trying to wipe out their enemy.
POWUH: and Athenaeum Châtelaine with 2212 comments
I first I thought this episode was going to be bad. Pinion has gone nuts and let the power go to his head. Red is having a case of PTSD or something (it’s probably some other psychological condition, but I’m too lazy to look into it.) and he is feeling extreme guilt over killing the Hideauze that is way overblown. I like the weapons they discovered, they aren’t too over the top like Chamber’s but they are loads better than what they have now. I hope Pinion gets over himself and they are able to share what they have found with the rest of humanity including Gargantia.
Anyway, I thought this episode was going to suck and they were going to spout the same anti-war, pacifist cliches you get in a thousand other anime, however–I must say, this episode was single-handedly saved by Chamber.
Chamber is without a doubt, the best and smartest character in this entire show. The machine is smart enough to put together what his pilot could not: that the Hideauze are no longer human and haven’t been for sometime. They gave up their humanity, willingly, and now that willingness has caused a war that has been waged for centuries. And it’s no longer a war of ideals, but a war of survival…for existence. Though you now know the war’s beginnings, it doesn’t change the reality that you’re in now. It just makes you more informed about the enemy.
However, the twist that I saw was coming eventually of Cmdr. Kugel being on Earth as well, has arrived. But is he awake or in some sort of induced coma like Red was? Striker (Kugel’s mech) doesn’t seem to be active, since it’s body and eyes weren’t glowing. And who are these strange cult guys in robes? They have ships covered in impaled, practically petrified Hideauze and have weird red eyes painted on their foreheads and symbols on their cloaks. They look so spaced out. I want to know what’s going to happen next! Why oh why did they decide to keep all the good stuff until the end and spent so much wasted time on nonsense?
Anyway, I give this episode an 8/10. Chamber had the best speech of the series and that by itself is laudable.
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10997 comments
I don’t know about the psychology, but Red just got a bad case of Heroic BSOD. Depending of the program, many heroes recover with an episode or two restart the old mental .sys file…
POWUH: 500-599 with 543 comments
Well, this episode sure made my o”pinion” about Pinion change quickly. I was worried, and now I’m even more worried. He’s lusting too much for power, and he wants it too quickly to gain a stable power.
Melty got us some nice info about Flange’s feelings. I feel better about Flange, probably because what he wanted to do with the tech is what I would want to do, but it’s too late now for him to salvage anything unless he jumps ship. Hopefully he can find a way to slow Pinion, but I don’t know… No clues at all. I get that both want to advance onwards, but it just reminds me of Bhutan and how they had a happiness quotient or something, and when they got TV, everyone was unhappy because they wanted so much stuff they couldn’t get. It’s good to advance, but they should keep in mind human feelings. (I’m touchy feely, yeah. Can’t help it.)
Chamber continues to frustrate me, as always. Seriously, he shouldn’t be trying to pass judgement on humans when he doesn’t know how to be human, nor does he have any sort of emotions that would help him out with that. Tsk tsk Chamber. You might be great tech, but it’s not what I would want in a companion.
POWUH: and Athenaeum Châtelaine with 2212 comments
I don’t know, sometimes in sci-fi it’s actually the non-humans or machines that make the best observations on human culture and behavior, or even humanity as a whole. I think because they are aren’t human, is what gives them a more objective view and they are able to just look at things without bias or prejudice clouding their minds. And Chamber is an A.I. and not just a robot, which does make a difference in how much he can understand human nature.
I thought Chamber did a pretty good job. It’s his job to guide and protect Red and he actually probably knows Red better than anyone. It actually shows something that he didn’t say anything about Red calling the GA’s official info “propaganda” and doesn’t just simply say what’s programmed. He is designed to reason and learn from the facts he’s presented.
POWUH: Meta Resident with 1692 comments
Yes, looking from the outside you can see things that those within a society cannot. However, Chamber cannot truly look in from the outside. He is as much a product of G.A. society as Red is. He is still a machine and while he has a great deal of sentience and independence of thought, he still functions within the parameters of his programing. Just as Red functions within the “programming” he received as he grew up with the G.A.
However, humans do have the capacity to throw off their programming when presented with new data or viewpoints (though few do) and I think Red is now in the process of doing so. Whether Chamber can do the same is an open question, but I don’t think he can given his speech to Red this episode.
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10997 comments
IKA!
POWUH: Meta Team and PreCure Mastah with 9203 comments
lolwut
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10997 comments
I’m crying. I am sooooo crying. Ika. Ika. IKAAAAAAAA!
POWUH: Meta Team and PreCure Mastah with 9203 comments
Oooh wait is it a pic of Chamber crushing Ika? If so yeah I saw it and died inside! The link is busted xD
POWUH: and LOLi Defender with 10997 comments
Fixed…
POWUH: Meta Team and PreCure Mastah with 9203 comments
Yay and noooooooooooo! xD